Just came back from teh tarik session again with our local Internet Marketing hero Richard Quek (http://www.internetmarketingtrainer.com). For those who still do not know who the heck is he you can always type his name on the google. Don't be surprised with the results

Anyway, there was a series of debate going on there on the issues of internet marketing and network marketing.

It's been surprising that there were several famous internet marketing heroes who "looks" successful online but actually ended in network marketing offline. This according to him, lies on the simply fact on what a real "passive income" that network marketing would bring in against conventional online marketing.

FYI, he's been really successful on his network marketing that he has to slow down on his internet marketing business. Well in fact, according to him, he's gone to almost like retiring from the Internet.

Wow, talkin' about real success story. But there was a point of time when he's lecturing me that I thought I might as well end up doing network marketing instead of the Internet stuff I'm going on currently, judging by his accute business sense about the whole issue about "passive income"

Not to say I know nothing about network marketing, in fact I was in that game before I ended up putting my foot on the Internet. Well I'm now abit confused on whether I should stick with internet marketing or network marketing.

what say you guys?

Sunny Tan

I tried to visit the forum on his website and got this message instead

He is really retiring isn't he? hehe

I'm afraid so ...but once in a blue moon he'll come up with something...you'll know when you are in his list...

OK, here's what I think ... Internet is a great medium to make money. But however you make it, it's not a secured money generator.

You may have 1 very attractive website, or you may have 1000 - but when the searh engine sneeze, you are going to lose it all (or mostly all). And you just have to build new ones to keep up with the ones falling from the search engines.

OK, maybe you don't depend on SEO so much. You blog and traffic comes naturally, or you have some other kind of community sites ... either way, you still need to keep updating it. Same goes to ezine publishers.

How about ebook publishers? I realize that the demand for ebooks dies faster than physical books. Three months down the road, nobody is buying your book anymore ... or maybe you can push it to a year. But the product life cycle is short. Before you know it, you are on to new projects, new products, new ebooks ...

So here's the question - Until when?

Unless you hold some stocks in Google or Yahoo, you aren't earning passive income from the Internet. You still have to keep working. But of course, if you are a fulltimer, you get rid a lot of stress - no travelling, no boss, no datelines ...

I suppose that is why internet marketers are starting to shift focus to network marketing. There's nothing wrong with that. If that works for them, then go ahead.

For me, I did that before ... didn't really work out. ROI from my Internet business is better. Infact my network marketing business is losing me money. Luckily I have Internet income to cover me back then ... but that doesn't mean that I won't get into it again ... the education, being around like-minded people ... those are worthless.

I have been thinking about this for a while ... close to a year. I may even venture into online network marketing. But that hasn't start yet ... Or maybe you can go for recurring commissions.

Another thing that you should remember is to put money away for saving. My father's advice is simple yet it's true. He said, "Business is a rollercoaster, when you make a lot, put aside for saving."

So that is what I will do. Make some money from the Internet, and put away for saving and INVESTMENTS. What type of investment? I went to a seminar about a year plus ago. The speaker said, the laziest, least risky investment is Unit Trust or Mutual Funds. So you may want to consider that ...

I also want to invest in real estates ... but it all starts now. Make the money, put some for saving. And when you have enough to start investing get into it.

Well, it doesn't mean that you have to stop your internet marketing all together. After learning here and there from the Internet ... some on Internet marketing itself, and some on direct marketing, I have to say that I have fallen in love with the marketing world. I'd like to continue doing this, and see how businesses, online and offline can be improved ...

Who knows, maybe I can be like Dan Kennedy, Gary Halbert or David Ogivly ... still going strong even at golden age ... I respect passionate people. I am the kind of guy who slack a lot ... If I can be half as passionate as them, I'll be happy.

There you go ... this is my 2 cents.

__________________
--------------------------------------------
Khairil Iszuddin Ismail

Whichever business you're venturing, there'll be challenges.

Kidino already put many points in his post above and I agree
with lots of things he said.

You have to find out what you really want (sometimes it's
not all money), then learn and investigate. Yes, you might
fail in anyone of them - be it network marketing or internet
marketing. But sometimes, you don't really fail but you're
actually progressing towards your goals.

Let me give you an analogy. You build a website and do lots
of traffic generations, and you are spending your hard-earned
money for two months now. Results - no sale. No income.

Then you quit, put down your website and look for other avenues
of income.

What you don't know is... if you keep doing what you've been
doing, you will make your first sale on the third month, fourth
month and so on. You will be generating income from your
internet business. But, this all will never happen if your story
was written only until month 2.

You might think that this story is fictitious and yeah, a story
to make you feel good but nothing more than that, but what
if I said that this actually happened to me? To tell you the
truth, it did happen to me and I hope it can be an inspiration
to anyone reading it.

Back to internet marketing vs. network marketing...

My take is... find a way to do both.

I got a chance to read an ebook by Daegan Smith
(internetMLMSuccess.com/mlm.html) and I believe it will be
a good start to know more about doing network marketing
on the internet in more detail.

He talks a lot about traffic generation and building a network
by 'co-op' ezine ads (his secret weapon). For some of you,
these are not something new but it works for him and will
probably work for you too.

I can tell you how to get a free distributor copy of his book
for you to study, only if you're willing to donate $2 to charity.
Just PM me, and yes... I'm doing it legally (Daegan allows me
to pass this book as long as you follow my instructions).

In summary, I hope you'll consider internet marketing and
network marketing at the same time. If you came across some
Amway distributors who are not building it for money, you might
be baffled, but you might not probably know that these
individuals might not be in for money. The sense of belonging
to a group of successful people can actually be greater than
anything else.

Find out what you really want.

Happy holidays to all.

-Zamri

ps. I'm not an Amway distributor.

__________________
FREE Online Profit E-Course - www.ZamriNanyan.com
OPMS Anyone? - www.OnlineProfitsMadeSimple.com

Zamri has some good points. OK, I have been eyeing online MLM for some time now. Never took the plunge. Zamri, perhaps you can give us some examples of good online MLM.

A few that I have been eyeing on are Kiosk.ws and SuccessUniversity.com. What's your view on these?

__________________
--------------------------------------------
Khairil Iszuddin Ismail

Dino, I'll try to answer the best I can. And, I think you know
all of these already...

There are lots of good MLM programs out there and there are
so many which are the opposite. Obviously, people look at a
lot of criteria when it comes to choosing the best program
they want to join. I won't list tens of pages here, but I'll list
down 3 of the most important criteria.

1. Product / Service

How do you feel about the product? Do you think that it will
benefit you even if there is no compensation plan attached
to it? Do you think what you'll be paying is worth the product
you'll get? (Sometimes the product can be expensive but the
values and benefits it gives are worth many folds more than
the amount you pay). Do you think that you can recommend
this product/service to others without hesitation? If you can
feel proud to recommend the product to others, you have a
winning product already.

2. Company

Look for a stable company. Do some research. Normally, a
company with 5 years in existence has a tendency to be
a good company to join. This is especially true for the
offline MLM. Of course, some companies with 10 years of
operation can go under too, but 5 years is a good benchmark.

Bear in mind also that many top Network Marketing leaders
join MLM companies within their first year operation. These
people know the companies and the people behind the
companies well - that's the only exception to choose a company
with no proven track record. If you come across a new
company with good product and great people behind it, do
diligent study on it. You might be looking at a goldmine.

3. Upline

Upline are the people in your line of sponsorship. They have
vested interest in your success and your growth. So, it is
critical to at least know the person who introduces you
to the program. This person doesn't have to be mega successful.
However, he or she should be a person who has the right attitude
and minds to succeed in the business. You will be interacting with
him or her a lot. So, you might as well like this person. He or she
should also have upline who have a good system to follow. Ask
that person how you will grow your business 'together'.

If you can reach your upline a few levels above you, try to do so.
Let them know that you are serious in the business and that they
should give attention to you when you face any challenges. Good
and smart upline will help his or her downline who are serious in
building the business.

While these three criteria are not a formal rule to follow, they will
definitely help you succeed in your MLM business, whether it's
online or offline.


Alrite, I think I've written too long now but I hope it will help
anyone who is searching something out there.

About Kiosk.ws and SuccessUniversity.com... Dino, I got a feeling
that you could read my mind or we are truly like-minded individuals.

OK... Kiosk.ws is a good program and a stable company. It's been
operating for more than 7 years (if I'm not mistaken). If anyone
wants to build a website or is providing a web design service, it's
a good place to start. Instead of finding a reseller webhosting and
charge it on their clients, use Kiosk.ws. You can make money and
if your clients refer others, they and you can make money too.

Kiosk is more like a technically-inclined company. But, they have
almost everyday meeting to help you grow your business. you can
learn with many marketing experts in their web conference calls.
The cost to join is cheap too... starting from $5.95 per month.

Kiosk.ws is still unknown to lots of people. Therefore, the market
is still wide. Look at Global Domain International. It's everywhere
but Kiosk is much better (in my opinion).

SuccessUniversity... hmmm, I'm on test drive of this program for
a week now. If you read my previous post about Daegan allowing
me to pass his internet MLM guide, you can guess that I'm in his
organization (at least in a 2-week test drive period).

So far, I like SU a lot. I've not made any decision yet, but if anyone
is willing to tag along with me with my email communication with
him, do let me know asap and I'll cc your emails too.

Let me talk about the service first... you get to read and hear from
the best in personal development, marketing and training. It includes
hours of audios and videos, plus conference calls. Recorded calls are
available too. COme to think about it, one conference call recording
is worth much more than the full one month fee for Malaysians (I mean
how much will you pay to hear marketing experts talk). Here we're
paying thousands of RM to attend seminars by Robert Allen, Jerry Clark
and others. There, they have the same people too. If you are really
into personal development (which everyone should consider), this is
something you should seriously look at.

About marketing... here's what I like the most. Daegan has a solid guide
on marketing this program on the net and he's giving it away to his
organization to duplicate. I like his team solo ezine ad co-op and how
he details his journey on his blog for all his downline to read. He's also
actively using articles to promote SU. If you join his team, it's like doing
step 1, then step 2, then step 3. However, his guide can also be used
to do other MLM programs.

OK la... I hope I don't sound pitchy here. I just want to let you know
what I'm evaluating now. Seriously, I'm considering a program to
introduce to my MLMLessons.com list and probably help 20 people
to profit in Online MLM next year. Let's see which program I'll choose....

Dino and others... hope I shed some light here.

cheers,

Zamri

ps. If you want a link to check out the two programs above, contact
me at www.zamrinanyan.com/contact

__________________
FREE Online Profit E-Course - www.ZamriNanyan.com
OPMS Anyone? - www.OnlineProfitsMadeSimple.com

Solid advice ... I've been sitting on whether or not to do online MLM for months (maybe years). They say, decision is the hardest part ... I am going to give it a go in 2006. Zamri, we'll be in touch.

__________________
--------------------------------------------
Khairil Iszuddin Ismail

zamri,

how the SU work?

__________________
Website I Like

OK Dino, you know my email....if it gets into spam box,
email me some more...

Sloth, sorry... a bit late in replying.

I'll explain it in a simple term that I hope everyone
can understand.

If you are familiar with promoting a membership
affiliate program on the net, you are a step ahead.

Promoting a membership affiliate program.

For a membership affiliate program, you promote
the program and when you get one customer, you'll
be paid a certain percentage 'every month' for as long
as that member stays as a paying member. For example,
I promote MLMBrilliance movies at MLMLessons.com and
I get paid 'every month' from each paying customer. It
becomes my residual income - get customers once and
be paid for many many times. The customer is happy
too because that tool help his/her business. To be an
affiliate for MLMBrilliance (and many other membership
affiliate programs) is free. Though, there are some
membership affiliate programs which are open to their
paying members only, meaning that you have to pay to
be a member before you can promote the programs.

Promoting Online MLM

Now, for SU (and other MLM to work), you are also
finding customers who'd see the benefit of the program
to them and hopefully they subscribe to SU membership.
When you get these customers, you're also getting
paid 'every month' for as long as they stay as paying
members.

Here comes a difference compared to promoting
a normal membership affiliate program - when your
paying customers refer new customers, they'll be
paid commissions from the membership fees of the
new customers. The good news is, you'll also get
paid from these same new customers by a certain
percentage. Some membership affiliate programs
adopt this method and they call it a 2-tier affiliate
program. For me, it's already an MLM and an MLM
extends some more until many levels deep, and
you'll get paid at all these levels with some terms
and conditions.

Basically, you're leveraging your own effort and time
to grow your business - based on customer satisfaction
of the program.

Another difference between MLM and the normal
membership affiliate programs is that you have to
be a happy customer of your MLM program yourself,
before you grow your network of distributors. If you
don't like the service or products of your MLM, forget
about promoting it (see the first criterion in my previous
post) or even joining the program. Yes, there are some
people who are promoting something that they don't
believe in. That's why these people will say lots of
bad things about MLM if the program doesn't work
(because they are missing the first rule/criterion).
I mean why should you pay in the first place if you
don't like the service/product?

How SU works?

I don't want to explain in details about SU here. It's
better for me to explain online MLM in general so that
I can clear some of the confusions and misunderstandings
and make this post more meaningful.

However, I'll do it quickly here for our friend, sloth.

SU is a binary MLM. You are allowed to have only 2
customers under you and if you have more, you'll
pass down to your first 2 customers until each of
them fills up their 2 customers and so on... To get
paid, everyone still has to personally sponsor at least
2 customers. So, it's not like you join, don't do anything
and get paid. It doesn't work that way. That's it in
a simple explanation. If you need me to explain more,
please contact me through my webform.


Hope I give lots of info about how MLM works in general,
for the benefits of everyone.

cheers,

Zamri

__________________
FREE Online Profit E-Course - www.ZamriNanyan.com
OPMS Anyone? - www.OnlineProfitsMadeSimple.com